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#11 Re: Northern Bow and Southern Arrow on Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:45 am

Edits made

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#12 Re: Northern Bow and Southern Arrow on Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:20 pm

I tried to keep this polite and through pms because I didn't care about whether or not this spell got approved. But Mushami has decided to take the stance that I'm just making shit up as I go along and has chosen to demand I make this public. I'm not here to argue with Mushami though as I know staff isn't as thick headed as him. Here's the pm I sent him followed by a quote of his reply. Staff can tell us which of us sounds like we're just making things up and which of us sounds like we actually did some research regarding the matter.

-To claim those spells are made of nothing but light is madness. Simply because they are shown as glowing light that does not mean there is no mass behind them and that they are ONLY made of light. They still are made of reiatsu which means they can't phase through objects as if they had no physical form. If they didn't have any spiritual mass then they would be unable to pin down spiritual bodies. Light alone can't paralyze someone and the nature of how reiatsu interacts would mean that even if it didn't have mass, it would still clash up against other bodies of reiatsu. This is why all of those spells can be broken using a burst of reiatsu.

-You can't use a zanpakutou power to justify a reiatsu effect because it's clear that those allow you to bend and break the traditional laws and rules associated with how reiatsu is used. I don't care how much of a kidou master you are, you could never create a spell that replicates Kyouraku Shunsui's shikai which imposes children's game rules onto reality.

-The spell Byakuya used is Danku. It is numbered 81 and is "said" to defend against all kidou up to 89. However the Kidou Commander Tessai cast a full incantation #88 hadou and was completely bewieldered when Aizen formed a no incantation danku that was still capable of blocking the attack. In can be inferred the only reason why Danku is "said" to be capable of defending up to spells that high is because that was the strongest anyone has seen it been produced up to that point in history. Not to mention that the sheer size of Aizen's Danku was simply massive in comparison to the one Byakuya reproduced. So while Byakuya stated an alleged limit of power for the spell, we've seen first hand that a master kidou practitioner was absolutely shocked when those limits were shown in practice.

-There are indeed two versions of blue fire kidou spells, however the secondary spell is simply a double casting of the original spell. The user literally uses it to just cast the first spell two times over at once to double the output. As for one of them being a set size, you just made that up. Lets compare Rukia's Hadou #33 Soukatsui to Byakuya's



-As for White Lightning and Roaring Thunder Canon, those two spells don't serve the same purpose and are not different version's of each other. White lightning is a condensed beam which will pierce through a target while Thunder Canon is gathered into an orb which is thrown releasing a lightning strike that explodes on impact.

-They are all subject to the same rules. Like I explained before however, the size of a spell doesn't HAVE to become massive with more reiatsu. That is just the default effect. When balanced with good reiatsu control as well, that power can be condensed into a smaller form.

I think that covers everything you stated that was false. Actually do research before you start talking about what is and isn't possible in the bleach-verse. Some of the things you mentioned such as implying blue fire crash down has a set size shows you didn't even try to make sure your information was correct. Please take the time to do so in the future if you are going to debate bleach mechanics with someone else.

@Mushami Shuuryou wrote:You don't know any of that. Lol

You're just making guesses based on what you think makes sense. As am I. I will not take part in a private debate of this nature because it should be done publicly where others can also contribute being this is something that effects the entire scope of the RP.

I'm up for debating this publicly if you are, but I'm not putting the effort in to successfully debate without audience or outside contributors. Would you like to start a separate topic?  

Yes, clearly I'm just making "guesses" based on what I think makes sense. It's not like everyone knows reiatsu clashes up against reiatsu vs phasing through it. Right? Or how about how zanpakutou/release/quincy powers are capable of things one can't do with normal reiatsu manipulation capable through kidou. Yeah, I totally just made that up. *sarcasm* Oh! and dont forget about the visual example I showed to counter Mushami's statement that Soukatsui and it's counterpart had set size limits. CLEARLY I just animated my own false GIFs in order to support an argument I just thought up on the fly.

Mushami, your reply to my pm shows you probably didn't even read it and if you did, then you're just being incredibly stubborn as is normal suit for you. "Counter" my statements if you can, but at least my "opinions" are backed by a healthy knowledge of the bleach universe and research. I suggest you put in the same effort.

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#13 Re: Northern Bow and Southern Arrow on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:10 am

No, I didn't read the entirety of what you wrote. I asked you if you wanted to start a separate topic to discuss it with other people who may also have something to contribute. In part to keep my kido request from turning into a debate over Bleach mechanics. But since you've decided to do this here, I'll take the bait.

You are STILL just making guesses based on what you think you know. I want you to reread what I stated. Not once did I say that kido was simply made from light. What I stated was that light is only a catalyst to create an effect. We obviously see certain kido is guided.

I can and WILL use a zanpakuto because it proves that you prefer to simply disregard legit Bleach statements or sound theories that prove your assumptions are faulty. You don't know the rules regarding kido formation, you, again, only assume to know. This is the basic difference between us at this point in time. There are kido that exist which already mimic powers of certain zanpakuto. For all you know the very thing that causes such bakudo to be effective are that they do mess with the target's weight or just targets mobility without rhyme or reason. Show me Tite Kubo's scientific break down of such kido before you claim to know that it isn't possible lol.    

You know what the function of Dragon Roar canon is despite it failing in the instance you mention? What evidence is there to support that they do different things if we've only seen the lesser kido hit effectively? This is you guessing at what you think you know. It looked to me like a bunch of electricity bolts (perhaps even white lightning) launched in a single direction. To keep from firing all over the place in which case most would miss their target they are contained within a tube/funnel.

The difference in size between Rukia's 33 and Byakuya's own don't work to prove your counter more relevant than my original statement for one reason and one reason only. I stated that kido may differ not only based on caster/number/etc, but also function. This kido may be a different size depending on caster, however it doesn't change the fact that it is larger and covers a wider area than 31. Can you perhaps show us kido 31 cast by Byakuya with as much range and power as Rukia's 33? That would definitely prove that all kido is subject to the same rule. Even Rukia's own 31 isn't half the size of her 33. This suggest that by creating a spell that allows for instant double back to back casting the twin attacks interact with or amplify each other which is something that can't simply be done by casting 31 back to back.   Some kido have set sizes which is why other versions exist which allow for wider  coverage and/or more powerful effect. And this is without even factoring in the amount of power a caster may choose to put into it. His surprise at the successful Danku is irrelevant. It can also be inferred that the kido is incomplete for beginners and won't hold up to do what it is designed to do. We also don't know if Danku's dimensions are easily altered as long as it's complete. I'm betting if anything, it is. Clearly this boils down to a translation error. Instead of just stopping spells under 89 it's designed to stop spells 89 AND under. I also want to add that there is something different about Aizen's Danku. His was called "Forbidden Danku" for some reason. It's possible that this was an alternative Danku or something.

Let's try to keep a certain level of maturity here. You don't know me. Stick to what is shown/suggested/said as opposed to insulting the person you're debating with.

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#14 Re: Northern Bow and Southern Arrow on Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:40 am


This debate will only prove more destructive than constructive so it has to end here. It's not up for debate and I'm not asking for your comments here, this is my decision as a staff member regarding the technique and the argument. If you are not satisfied with it, feel free to complain about it and use your member powers to put a vote against my decision.

First off, despite the fact that Duquin commented here only to help me out in better assessing your creation and to help you out so that you could remove the flaws and get it accepted. Instead of only arguing for the sake of argument, you should have AT LEAST READ his post completely, understanding it comes later. To not read someone's post is an obvious gesture that you don't actually care what they're saying or thinking. Something like this is not tolerable, Duquin is a veteran member here, and he has helped many members in many ways with their characters, kido spells bankais, or anything and everything, so his intentions are not questionable in my not so humble opinion.

Secondly, if you had read what he said you should have realized your mistakes and instead of prolonging this you could have edited your kido, and it would have been approved by now. You did not realize your mistakes and maintained the notion that you and only you are correct despite the fact that so many reasons were provided to you and none of those reasons were "guesses", they were based on facts depicted in both the anime and manga.

As a failure to understand your mistake in designing this kido and maintaining an argument that will not lead to anything because of your lack of respect for the member whose trying to help you out. I disapprove this kido. This discussion ends here.

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