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Northern Bow and Southern Arrow

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on Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:49 am

Kido Name: Kitasenshu Minamiya (Northern Bow and Southern Arrow)
Strength of 70s level Bakudo
No Number
Incantation: (Part 1) Soar beyond loneliness. Claw at the divide with untold fury.  (Part 2) Travel from top to bottom only to discover there is nothing.
Effect: This is a two part kido. The effect only takes place after both parts of the incantation are said. The kido can be said in whole before any of the conditions are met in order to make the process seem instantaneous. The first part of the incantation creates a translucent black bow upon its completion. The bow allows the user to fire translucent black arrows one after another if it's said in full prior to its use. Otherwise a single arrow is all that can be used. The arrow(s) don't actually possess mass or weight but instead only carries a multi-part  seal. When the arrow strikes a target, it envelopes whatever is struck in a dim light. This does nothing but symbolize that the seal has been successfully placed. The second part of the spell's incantation divides the seal. A part of it is launched from the opposite side of the target along the same trajectory that the arrow that first hit them would have traveled had it flown right through the target. The seal fragment takes on the form of the original arrow until it strikes the target next in its path. The two part of the seal are drawn towards each other. This causes the target first struck and the second target struck by it to be pulled towards each other as if too oppositely charged magnets with an incredibly powerful attraction. The effect lasts a minimum of one post after the kido's full effect is activated and one additional post for each tier higher the caster is than the target if the target is a spiritual/living entity.

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#2Guest 

on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:28 pm

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A kido which creates a translucent black bow upon completion. The bow allows the user to fire translucent black arrows one after another.

The dimensions of the bow itself and the arrows would help in making a mental image, so either an image or a numeric dimension is strongly suggested.


The arrows don't actually possess mass or weight.
Since the arrows don't posses mass or weight, so is it safe to say that they are reiatsu based arrows? If so, defenses that shield against reiatsu or any skill regarding reiatsu will be effective against this bakudo. So please clear the part about their constitution.

They don't harm what they strike, but instead simply passes through a target before striking a target behind it and vanishing. This causes the target first struck and the second target struck by it to be drawn towards each other as if too oppositely charged magnets with an incredible attraction.

How do the struck objects end up attracting each other? Also, define the term target? does it remain in the context of just objects or does it include carbon based or reiatsu based life forms, including all the species here on the forum that is shinigami, hollow etc

#3Guest 

on Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:58 am

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Defining the objects effected is hardly necessary. Kido which effects a specific type of object has it in the description, ex. kido which deliberately lock arms in place or paralyze a person. The dimensions of the bows and arrows are also not relevant to the effect lol. I may or may not get into detail depending on the amount of imagery I'm going for in a thread.

All kido are subject to various strengths and weaknesses depending on the caster and target. This is no different. I'm going to leave it up to the person I'm RPing with to come up with their own reaction/defense. Of course the strength of the spell would require equal strength just like with every other kido.

#4Guest 

on Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:19 pm

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The alterations that I've asked for, may appear insignificant but have their significance in the long run since it will help out the person rp'ing with you. So, I'm sticking by my assessment of the technique.

The dimensions are necessary because a fixed dimension needs to be approved so it can't be varied later. The mechanics of the kido is required because it performs an unusual task rather than binding someone or simply paralyzing them it compels the struck "targets" to attract each other. Also the other things that I've pointed out, as I've said earlier, may not appear significant but they are.

on Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:12 am

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Soul
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The name you chose does not translate into Northern Bow and Southern Arrow. It's basically just "Demon Archer"

It is impossible for the arrows to not have any mass or weight. Even if they were reiatsu based they would still have spiritual mass or weight. Since everyone can be hit by spiritual attacks, this means the attack can't phase through people.

Instead of passing through a target and then hitting something behind them, I suggest you change the arrow effect to pierce a target and then stick to them while stretching past up to a specified range. This would give you a similar effect. But what you're trying to do now just doesn't make sense.

@Epizon, the dimensions of the bow don't matter because the size and potency would depend on the reaitsu of the user. More reaitsu=potentially bigger stronger bow.

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on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:47 am

I know what it translates to I used a translator site for it lol

Light or in this case darkness, has no weight. There are already kido which exist that have no mass or weight and literally just have an effect. There are no lines stretching from the caster's finger to the target for kido like Sai, Geki, or Rikojojoro for example.

The arrows, are not an attack like you seem to think. They are a bakudo. They essentially act as a catalyst to make two things attracted to one another as opposed to say, the kido which already exist which can tie two or more things together. This way I like more than using above mentioned kido to reach for something behind the target first entangled.

Rather than just having a kido which pins a person to the surface behind them, or causes something behind them that isn't unmovable to be attracted to the target in front this creates a visible aid and the potential for literary play. It may be more fun to dodge arrows than something you can't see.

And it's really best not to focus on the size of the bow or arrow as an expression of the caster's power, but the strength of the effect. I can't stress this enough, the physical appearance of this kido acts as ONLY a visual precursor to what's coming and the physical form only acts as catalyst for the desired effect.

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on Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:08 pm

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Shinigami
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@Duquin wrote:Instead of passing through a target and then hitting something behind them, I suggest you change the arrow effect to pierce a target and then stick to them while stretching past up to a specified range. This would give you a similar effect. But what you're trying to do now just doesn't make sense.

It makes sense to me. When it touches a target, a kido seal is cast upon the victim, and this is how it works. Two seals attract each other strongly, causing two targets to be struck together. So it makes just perfectly sense, but the kido seal should be at least mentioned.

Sorry for intervening.

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on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:47 pm

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Soul
Soul
Online translators are notorious for being poor in quality. This still doesn't translate to northen bow and southern arrow. Not unless there were custom kanji being used, but if that is the case then that should be noted. Otherwise you just look like an ignorant weeaboo and I know that isn't who you really are. I'd rather you and the site in general not be looked down upon by educated rpers by giving off that bad impression.

As for your other points....There is so much general lack of knowledge about bleach being thrown around here that while I understand where you are coming from, it simply doesn't work when looked through the lens of bleach mechanics.

-Sai, Geki, and Rikujokokrou all have spiritual mass. They all require the target actually aim an emission of reiatsu in the direction of their opponent which then influences them or the space around them depending on the nature of the spell itself. If it didn't have any mass then there wouldn't be any reiatsu even present in the attack. You can't have reiatsu without spiritual mass(reishi) being present. That's just how the universe works.

-I'm not mistaking the arrows for an attack. Did you even read my suggested change? The mechanic of passing through a target like it doesn't even exist and then marking it before actually making contact with something behind them is impossible unless you were working with some kind of release power with phasing abilities. That is why I suggested the arrow pierce the target as the first step of the spell. Instead of phasing through them, it actually hits them. This doesn't make it an attack as that hit isn't meant to really cause terrible damage. Even if it did, there several bakudo that bring harm to the victim so trying to remove any form of damage is just closed minded.

-If you just don't want things being "tied" together and prefer a non-physical attraction between two targets, then fine. You still need to lose the phasing mechanic.

So my new suggestion is to just make this a multiple part incantation spell with a simple 3 or 4 words used to switch your arrows effects. The first incantation can form the bow and fire arrows that will act as anchors. Then with the second incantatoin, the arrows will change their effect to "magnetise" struck targets to the location of the nearest anchor. This alteration would make your spell far more versatile as you would not only be able to anchor a target to the wall behind them. But you could anchor a nearby car, tree, or other object to a target. Then they would have a giant thing following them around for however long.

-That reminds me, regardless if you make that exact change or not, there should probably be a duration for your effect.

-Your comment about the visual aide is irrelevant as all of my suggestions include the visible arrows. That aspect of your spell wouldn't be lost so I don't see any point to mentioning it.

-Whether you think it's "best" to fit the bow size to the castor or not honestly doesn't matter. Stronger characters can create bigger scale spells by pumping more reiatsu into them. This is just how kidou works. It's possible to condense lots of that reiatsu down to limit the size as is done with zanpakutou. I was not suggesting that the bow just become massive in size as you rank up. Even at max tier you could make a tiny ass sized bow if you wanted so long as you used a smaller portion of reiatsu or heavily condensed it all. However you would also be capable of making a less dense super huge bow with huge ass arrows.

None of these changes would really effect the max damage you deal at your tier because of the way balancing systems work here. But kido size and potency is still directly related to the amount of reiatsu being channeled into the spell. I really hope you don't try and continue debating this because it only serves to help your cause by allowing you to alter the size of the bow to suit your situation.


Final Note: Sorry for not making this clear, but my original post any this one are just suggestions and advice and not a staff decision. That being said, I left these notes mainly for Epizon's sake. Not so I could argue with you. If you disagree with anything I've said above, fine. You aren't required to make them as changes unless Epizon agrees with me. So let him make his decision and then you can debate it with him if that pleases you. But my purpose posting here was not to bump heads.

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on Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:37 pm

Erida wrote:
@Duquin wrote:Instead of passing through a target and then hitting something behind them, I suggest you change the arrow effect to pierce a target and then stick to them while stretching past up to a specified range. This would give you a similar effect. But what you're trying to do now just doesn't make sense.

It makes sense to me. When it touches a target, a kido seal is cast upon the victim, and this is how it works. Two seals attract each other strongly, causing two targets to be struck together. So it makes just perfectly sense, but the kido seal should be at least mentioned.

Sorry for intervening.

That's fine I really don't mine. That is the idea of this. I chose northern and southern to play off of opposite poles. I liked them better than negative bow and positive arrow. Lol

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on Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:04 am

Yeah, point taken about the name. I didn't like the literal translations they gave so I deliberately stuck with demon bow because kido were called demon magics and it'd be easier for me to remember when writing about it.

I'm looking at this through Bleach mechanics. Never was it stated that those kido have mass nor was it ever shown that they have mass. There is only light (which has no physical mass) which acts as a catalyst for those mentioned. Now there may be kido which have mass and an effect which result in the creation of light or darkness (like Black Coffin which I believe was expressly stated) but in Bleach mechanics there are plenty of reiatsu based effects that don't have actual mass despite Wabusuke(sp?) for example which effects gravity it's an effect that doesn't actually have mass. There is also no line which connects the zanpakuto to what it's effecting after it made contact.

As far as the nature of kido goes, they don't all differ based on the skill of the caster. Some are a set strength and some a set size. Byakuya's kido barrier used against Espada 7 for example is said to be able to stop all destructive spells lower than its respective number(?). Also note that there are two destructive spells based on blue fire. One is a set size and the higher version is said to cover a wider area. Then you have white lightning and its counterpart thunder canon which wouldn't need to exist if white lightning could be made to be that powerful based on amount of reiatsu pumped into it alone. What makes a kido stronger may be based on skill of caster/whether an incantation is used, the design of the kido itself/number, or the overall reiatsu pumped into it. They clearly are not all subject to the same rule though.

I don't like visual appearance of an arrow stretching to connect it to something else. So I would rather not.

Understood, all anyone can do is give suggestions. You did have good points though which made me think on this. As did Erida. This will be edited in more detail shortly.

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